Gil White – Managing Partner at Herzog 
 
Transcript (automatically generated)
Speaker 1 
You're right. Thank you so much. 
Speaker 2 
For joining us here, speak to my where we discuss interesting careers and dissect people's lives and the law. Their stories pleasure to have. You join us all the way from Tel Aviv, Israel, where you're managing partner of Herzog, one of Israel's leading war firms. The reputation of reform that you lead is is great. I've known some of the founders. Hertzog is currently the the President of Israel. I believe it was founded. By his father, also Lehman. The former name Jacob Newman was a justice minister. And and Fox British lawyer I discovered recently that I'm related to him through marriage somehow so. Tell me about. Your career, you're you're. From the UK, how did you end up at? Work and ultimately managing. 
Speaker 1 
Interesting question. Thank you for having me come back. There you go. So actually was born in Israel. Not the sound from my accent when I was a baby, which was pretty soon after the Yom Kippur War, my parents decided that the last thing they wanted. Just to see their children in Army uniform. So they left the UK and they've since moved to the UK. I was brought up in my formative. Years in Manchester. Studied at University College London and did my did my course, my training, the large international firm fresh Fields in London. And this is the late 90s and fresh fields were international council to the company, which built and manages what was. The first tower. That is all over the 60. Sheesh. And I was a young bad carrier not doing anything very important on that transaction. We were an international firm together with these really firm user of there. And on the other side of the table to us representing the banks was another international terminal and. Over in what was then. A very small firm from Israel. Known as HFM, we get to the end of the transactions, so we're now in 1999. And for some strange reason. They think maybe. A good idea? To give this young guy an offer to make aliyah and come and be a finance lawyer, the project finance there on the 22nd of March 2000 for the first time, I walk into the. Office of herself. Have fun for the next 20 years and and then about three or four years ago this suggestion came up that well, maybe I might be a good fit to take over from the men, their managing partner malis, and would be managing partner here to be managing. 
Speaker 
Both funds. 
Speaker 1 
Partner for 25 years and in on the 1st of April 2021 I became managing partner and it was really interesting because on the job description the managing part that was that was not a pandemic. There was not nine months of civil war. Follies were around illegal form, and there was. Not a war. So my son was managing part of this place has been somewhat interesting. 
Speaker 
Right. 
Speaker 1 
But that, that's. How I got to where I am? 
Speaker 2 
Well, so. So tell me about the tour 20 plus years of your career. I mean, Israel's experienced, unprecedented growth, amazing growth especially I believe in, in your field, corporate gaming. How how's you know, 20 plus years of of the career at the top firm been for. 
Speaker 1 
And then out-of-the-box is probably the best expression, but that might be some something. That people used to. Describe me anyway. So when I first got there, as I said. 
Speaker 
OK. 
Speaker 1 
I came into. Their finance lawyer and did spend the. Early part of. My career here, doing a whole bunch of deals or Israeli bank Piggy Bank of pooling financing. Projects outside of Israel. Basically everything I've done for those 20 years has been outward facing of Israel as well, especially the firm. But in my first few weeks here. I got a phone call from the Benanti Department. The same mayor I mentioned, he said. Look, there's some guys coming in. I know the guys. I don't exactly know what they did, he said. This is probably May 2000, so it's. Something to do? With the levels I've never been in, the casino has something to do with Internet. This was the then managing both of. Overall, families are I'm not really sure what the Internet is. I'm walking on meet the founders of a company that became known as 888I very quickly stopped being a suited and booted finance lawyer and became into the gambler and have really spent my career advising. Almost every gaming company. One can think of both Israeli and non Israeli. One of my biggest clients is the largest gaming company out of Romania and our whole amazing team here. I'm not norfed into a whole bunch of other fields if it's fintech. If it's blockchain crypto. Everything which is regulated on the Internet. 
Speaker 
And so. 
Speaker 1 
All the widening less startups, more established countries. And that's really what I spent. The last 20 years of my life, doing as I said, enjoying the rise. 
Speaker 2 
Well, I mean, it's an interesting discussion about the regulation and compliance you mentioned in these new industries. I I started the early part of my career doing compliance at the big financial institutions in Israel and. Financial institutions are have a lot more developed and mature compliance regimes. So how does it work? Being a lawyer for like a in the crypto world where there's it's the Wild West where there's there's no real compliance, is it, you know, how do you rein clients in and? What's what's your take? 
Speaker 1 
And you're weighing and climbing. Soon. I'm not sure clients. 
Speaker 2 
No. Have you? 
Speaker 1 
I'm not sure clients can be raided. If they can. So what do you do? 
Speaker 2 
I'm just thinking of. Like a sand bang, Sam. Bankman free top guy as a client and you know the Wild West people do what they want and. And you lay down the law. 
Speaker 1 
So so. So so it's look, it's an interesting question. Our sorry we gave into. The crypto so back in my early days as a. Internet gambler and remember, the gaming world is. Lauren Brooks and north right. It's a casino in the UK. It's a betting shop. It's a slot machine parlor. So countries know how to regulate and license physical venues. And suddenly we find the entire world moving into the online sphere. And lawmakers regulation always comes after technological development, social change in the past. And I remember getting. This quite legal opinion. We went to a lawyer in Belgium and asking for a legal opinion as to whether aid gaming company with its servers in one country, could. Offer to people situated in Belgium to play on those servers and his legal team was really interesting. He he started off by saying in 1886 there was. Away in Belgium. So 1880s was before the advent of the telephone and learn the event and and, he says, because the website of my then company started www.worldwideweb. It must be public, a public place because it's in the world and therefore this 1886 law attaches itself to gaming in public places. What you're doing is illegal. So which clearly was which which, which clearly with great respect to to that particular guy who's and I mentioned was was absolute tosh. So the key in regulation and compliance is assisting your clients to understand how existing laws apply and where existing laws don't apply. Either to. Encourage them to take on some levels of self regulation. Many companies in the industries I'm involved with and most of my clients. Take on some form of self regulation and compliance and and it's a large amount of risk analysis and crypto is basically basically the same. You know there are financial services regulations, crypto is a digital asset but but again you know the world. Has moved slowly, therefore you know the. EU has moved faster. Than the US, the SEC and the US had an opportunity. Five years ago. To take this issue under its under its umbrella. Bring in some regulations and. Therefore, it would not be the Wild West. The SEC opted to do something else. Part of the trick. And without any reference to an individual you mentioned is picking your clients with care, right? I've met a bunch of people over the years, something we're a lot of fun to me, but I'm not particularly sure that they should be. Clients of herself. So it's, you know, you pick your clients, you hope? That they listen. To at least some of what you say. You go to sleep quietly at night, hopefully. 
Speaker 2 
Sounds sounds like a very interesting career you've had at the forefront of change and development and economic development. It's it's pretty interesting now in the past couple of years as a managing partner. I'm just curious you get to practice law, is it more managing? 
Speaker 1 
We'll give you the answer you the. 
Speaker 2 
Truth. That's all. Only the truth. 
Speaker 1 
Probably the truth. I probably spend 100% of my. Time managing a. 100% of my time working on clients I I don't tend to sleep very much and I do try to add in some exercise in between 1:00. 
Speaker 
And the other. 
Speaker 1 
Look, I'm probably. Spending 60% of my time managing and 40% of my time. Dealing with climate ebbs and flows overtime, you know, probably since the 7th of October and the wariness I've spent more time managing, the less time with clients and. So it moves, but probably 2/3 of my time is managing 1/3 of my time is clients because I actually quite enjoy it like some of my clients, so it's fun to keep. Up to speed with them and keep involved at all. 
Speaker 2 
Nice. So I mean you mentioned the 7th of October, I mean everything must have changed so drastically since then, starting from a macro kind of economic point of view has has Israel been affected? What's the economics like in Iraq? Well, you know the the. Deals happening these days and more more specifically like Hertzog and the lawyers. I mean, I know a lot of the workforce has been emptied out and gone to serve on the front lines. So how have? You dealt with everything. 
Speaker 1 
And so my favorite expression during this was that I just about know what's happening today, so don't ask me what's happening tomorrow. So the good. Thing is your. Question relates to the past, so I can answer the past. I think if you ask me a. Question I'll be. In the future, that would be more challenging. I might try and answer if you. Really. Ask. So what happened? Clearly, the Israeli economy has been affected this war. The direct costs of the war, something like a billion shekels a day, 250 million U.S. dollars, roughly a day. There has been going on for 100 days. That is a huge amount of money. The the the economy of this country prior to the 7th of October this. Very strong. You know, we had all the fastest growing GDP's in the OCD and we have a huge bunch of reserves. So we can these are the. Economy will survive the war, you know, as we speak to the government is sitting discussing the 2024 budget. You know the right policies decisions. Because some of those decisions will be. The economy will rebound after this war. Probably my view stronger than it was before. But you know the month of October was the blackest month in the history of this country. And therefore, whilst people were sort of working nobody. He was focused on working and. Basically though by the. Time we got to November, I remember. Doing the zoom for the entire office our offices 750 employees. So I had a huge number of. Boxes on the screen. And you know, talk to everybody through what? We've been doing. We had a minute of. Remembrance, the whole number of people here lost loved ones on the 7th of October to around was lost. Brothers, one sister. And you know, this is all very personally strong. We have at the. Peak about 100 employees on military reserve duty. We're still at about 75, the office spending the office, the workers in the office spend a huge amount of time and effort. In the first two or three weeks, supporting all of those who've been taken to the front only, we're delivering army boots here and food there and and. A whole bunch of great and wonderful stuff all over the country, but by the time we. Got to the. Start of November. You know the economy is part of the war and the economy functioning is an important part of the rural. Sorry. Gathered everybody who wasn't reserved. So look, I do understand that nobody. Really is focused on work. I have two children in the army. I'm not being focused on work, but. The functioning of this office, the fact that when 100 people on reserve duty, we still feed their families at the end of every month. The fact that you. Know on top. Of that hundred, we probably have another 60 or 70, either with spouses or children. In the army. The place needs to function. We need to make. Sure. We use the mouse. There is somewhere to pay salaries and leaving the commitment of everybody to getting back to the coalface and working was pulling away and and therefore you know. We're all busy. I think one of. The amazing facts is, and this shows resilience of the economy. If you could only. Manage transactions, which were ongoing on the 6th of October, so the day before the war only one got cancelled because of the will. Every other transaction either closed successfully or is ongoing. The phone rings every day with inbound transactions, investments in tech companies, general advice on Israeli law. You know the the international business community has put the whole silver box, so we get it. But Israel is a hugely successful, interesting. Country that we are absolutely committed to carrying on doing business with. So you know from that perspective. It's been great and actually, you know, working as great panaceas to keep you away from watching the news all. Day or whatever else. We were doing for the first few weeks of all. 
Speaker 2 
Yeah, well, that's incredible. And there's so much impact this war has had on, I guess, global. And now the ICJ case political front, initially over protests and campus activity, I mean. Does that affect anything that's going on in your world? To, you know, global clients ask about a question what's going on or is. It kind of business as usual. 
Speaker 1 
And so clearly during the month of code, everybody was asking what was going on, not just everyone was asking what was going on. The outpouring of support and affection. That we often all over the globe was mind blowing. You know, the the last blood of this office is international relationships. We are the hub of a huge amount of. Inbound investment into Israel, but also the practice that I would deal with outbound investment banks rallies outside of Israel. I must have received in the first two weeks, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages via e-mail by WhatsApp on LinkedIn, on Facebook on every medium. You can think of from almost every jurisdiction you. Can think of. So that's really, really hard. And I do think that most people who understand this country and invest in this country, in new business, in this country. Realise that unfortunately conflict is part. Of the DNA and. Therefore, so people were very focused in the first two or three weeks, you know, multinationals who have offices in Israel, you know, fancy Amazons or Facebooks or apples or Microsoft or GS of this world. OK, what's going on? How does this? Impact our employees. Three weeks later. That was no longer a conversation like that. 
Speaker 2 
Yeah. And I saw Intel even increased their investment into Israel. Quite, quite incredible. Last week, I was watching the the ICJ spectacle. What's what's the feeling in Israel? About this of people waiting for them to care. About it and and. As lawyers, but the the public more generally speaking, what's what's the feel? 
Speaker 1 
So it's it's amazing how suddenly there's. Will go to justice is everybody's eye and many, many people that were sitting watching this court hearing, I admit. That I've watched. Bits of excerpts and and news coverage and and. A couple of my. Colleagues were very involved in what was going. On I've been seeking but. I was watching it. The ICJ on the one hand, is the highest. Quotes from evil in the world. On the other hand, it's part of the United Nations and the United Nations, not just from an Israel perspective, but particularly from Israel perspective, is a. 
Speaker 2 
Very, very. 
Speaker 1 
Difficult, biased organization. So when you look at the case at hand and this is not the only case involving Israel in the ICJ or the South Africa cases, obviously the one that has taken the headlines. The case is absolutely and loyalists don't normally use this terminology either dry nor blue case is absolutely, totally baseless. There is absolutely no that's whatsoever that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza to commit genocide will need to happen without getting into regions. Was the tension. To kill eight people. Because of their definition. This role was subject to a genocide on the. 7th of October. Hamas invaded Israel, a sovereign country with some intention of killing Jews. Unfortunately, in their barbarism, they also had notion of killing Arabs and Christians. Along the way, and we mourn them. Just as we warned the Jews of the loss. South Africa was the first country on the 8th of October. So the day after the pharmacy vacation was, we were still counting our dead. South Africa was the first country to issue a statement which basically said the 7th of October was Israel's fault. South Africa was the. First country to host those solidarity delegation from Hamas. And therefore we, whilst we take these proceedings seriously because they are in the International Court of Justice, South Africa is, as it has always been, unfortunately, South Africa is a country. And the people that I. Have a lot of time and affection for but. Since the fall of. Apartheid South Africa was a turned into. Into this amazing economic. Jurisdiction. So he wants me to the goals because goals should be simple. So yeah, I think the Israeli legal team on Friday. From what I saw, her did a really, really excellent job in setting out the case. It's always difficult when you're defending a case which has no substance to it, but but we'll we'll we'll see how it plays out. You know that when you look at the composition of the of the judges there, I'm pretty sure the judge from Lebanon is not going to find the. Of Israel the. Judge in China probably won't either. But there's a whole bunch of Westerners there. Who? We imagine a slightly more scholarly and left committee. Influenced than others. 
Speaker 2 
Well, wishing Israel only success and complete victory over there, not only in Gaza and the Court and all around the world for that matter, our hearts are with you. I want to get to some. More general questions now just if you picture the young lawyer kind of in law school trying to graduate or about to graduate, a general question, do you have an area of law which you think is up and coming that you suggest someone who's undecided go into? 
Speaker 1 
Last interesting question, because I I I said a lot with students, it's. Actually one one of the. Things I enjoy doing the most is when I get. Invited to sit with. Students or students to reach out to me. On social media and. I love engaging. It's it's, it's great. It's fun. The key is to find something you enjoy doing. And and I'm trying. Not to give a cliche answer. 
Speaker 
But at the end of. 
Speaker 1 
The day being your lawyer. It's a pretty demanding job and therefore if you're going to go into a profession which you know, as I said already. I really enjoy what I do, but if you're going to go into a profession, you need to go into an area which interests you. Another huge number of opportunities in the law, you know, some people watch LA. Lawn suits and all they. Wanna be the litigator? Go to court and objection me, Lord. And that's great. And there are other people who have a punch on for real estate. There are people who the high tech will fascinates them. You know, there are people. Who look at the environmental issues in the world that want to help save the planet and go to environmental law. So I I don't think. There is a one niche that say look. This is where you need to go because this. Is how you're going. To become the next. Legal billionaire, I think, will be the keys. Want to approach with an open mind because oftentimes. Trainees with Mahim come here on their first day thinking. I wanna be the. Next big shot M and a lawyer and don't really understand. What being an M? And a lawyer, or is or you know. I only wanna work in high tech and OK, but you learn what high tech groups? Or that so. Come with an. Open mind and find something you enjoy doing. Because if you don't enjoy. Doing it, you won't last the marathon. 
Speaker 2 
OK, I good. Good answer and and the careers many way a journey and you're kind of one thing to the next, the next a little bit in in Canadian law, they're very advanced in terms of software and even borderline AI, but I don't think AI just yet. It's more. The heavily even. Reliance on software and and I'll talk about that from an estates lawyer, estate planning, estate administration, there's corporate software, the software now for personal injury law and family law, the software for real estate transactions are. There's a lot of the software, it's costly, but it is so much more efficient and accurate and I think better for everybody. But as far as I know, Israel is quite underdeveloped in their use of software. Can you talk to that? Does does the firm use software to make it more efficient and? I mean, what? What kind? Of software is there in Israel that I. May not know of. 
Speaker 1 
What a great question. So I think your analysis is the end of your analysis is not. Accurate one, let's. Start with the end. Of work back. 
Speaker 2 
Law firms in the. 
Speaker 1 
Startup Nation don't really use a lot of legal tech software, but we do. And and I think. One, there's a challenge and then I'll try and explain where we do use it. The challenges that in most. Most real uses today of legal tech. Are particularly in the area of litigation. But also in the era of mass real estate, you know, if you go to shopping mall with 1000 units, both litigation and real estate and these sort of done in the Hebrew language and there's no jurisdiction and therefore for somebody to take a international legal tech. And translate it to Hebrew. Left, right, left and. Off left to right and you have enough Ben. Does the business case is a very difficult one so. There are much. Less there's much less availability of product in Israel than in Canada or or the US or Europe. Now where we are using legal tech is particularly. In generation and and therefore we have a whole bunch of tools or weird and wacky precedents where people may use any further details, and then we'll we'll get you a pretty useful first draft agreement. And so that we're definitely using. You know the the the tech world is very focused on these precedents that we. Have a whole bunch of. Tools that we give to our technicians, but I'm not trying to. They that were at the forefront of. Legal tech. What's interesting is as a jurisdiction, there's. A huge amount of. Legal tech innovation. Whole bunch of products coming out of Israel. One of my partners is that's that's his area of speciality, but very. Few of them. Are actually utilized in a very small market, you know, while developing product in Hebrew, if you can develop it in English and attack. The world, as it were. 
Speaker 2 
Interesting. OK. So I mean without the use of legal tech, another general question for the young lawyers is in your experience, what makes a good lawyer? What's you, you've probably come across the a lot of great ones. I I know some of them, Daniel Reisner, for example, what, what, what makes a great lawyer? 
Speaker 1 
OK, you set the bar super. High Daniel rising. Who's he's he's our example. Daniel, what's up one. Of my favorite people who walk on the planet. The legal profession is changing and evolving, and that's the question is the time you want? Because I think what made a great lawyer. Five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago is not the same as what makes it great lower today. Let's take as a given that someone understands the law. OK? Because you know you can't be a heart surgeon if you don't understand the anatomy of the heart. So let's take as a given that people understand the law. I keep up to date with developments in the law of statutory case law. The question is the delivery to the client. You know his joke that when I first joined this place, this is really gonna make me sound like a. Dinosaur. But I always joked with the fans of the firm and you, you mentioned you mentioned three of them, two of whom I had the pleasure of working with. The male used to come in the morning. And in the afternoon. The mail didn't jump in every second. You know, I forgot. To looking off my mail, so I'm hearing the pinging through that court. I hope it's not coming through all the teams you. Know we get bombarded today with communication. Which didn't happen in the past, you. Know my first. Week or second week in the office I was walking down the corridor. And I heard Jacob Neumann, secretary, reaching down the corridor. I thought what had happened? There must be a fire. There must be an emergency. Yakov yakov. There's an international phone call. This wasn't that long ago. So, because we are. Bombarded today by communications lawyers, our ability to respond or our requirements to respond. Almost instantaneously. There's reason you know this famous examples that whereas in the past if somebody asked the Lord for a legal opinion that to get 20 pages right assumptions, facts, legal analysis, conclusion today rules give legal opinions by thumbs up in WhatsApp or by this in WhatsApp or by. So the whole skill set. Of being a lawyer. One your requirement to give advice. Much quicker. Your requirement then to give very. Advice because you don't have 3 pages. Tell a whole. Story right, you and therefore you must be able to articulate your advice. Much more succinctly, much more concisely, and in a much more relevant manner to the client. I think one of the biggest complaints I hear of managing partner from clients is. I don't know for expert advice. You know that's over the door. Take it. Lied to my situation. Give you the bottom line, and therefore that that is. What I call. Value added legal services. It's giving advice which is relevant to the client on a real time basis. That is a totally different legal world to. Not that long ago actually, but that's that's the. That is the number one requirement for young. Royals, and I think it also makes expression more. Interesting, right? It's. Much more dynamic. You're much more hectic, but much more dynamic. 
Speaker 2 
Yeah, it just made me think of the fact that I don't like billing by the hour. I prefer giving a flat fee for the client and you know. When you're responding with legal advice with the thumbs up, thumbs down, it's hard to build too much for that type of quick response. So and you have to pull for the the knowledge. All that you've learned over the years. But uh, it's an interesting different structure to back there. We have to write a whole legal. 
Speaker 
Yeah, look, you know. 
Speaker 1 
It's interesting that that that concept of hourly. Billing and we are an. Orphan that goes by the hour. We don't, I think. Billing by the. Hour is probably only half of what. We do. Everything else is fixed. Dreamed up the concept of being by the hour and I've. Always meant to go and Google or Wikipedia. We've dreamed up this concept. I just give the. Example of the plumber. You know, let's say you wake up in the morning and your kitchen sink is broken. And it's all the Ganges not going down the plug hole. And he phoned the plumber and he said look, SOS can't wash the dishes. Sink is blocked. Please come course. Plumber turns up. Looks at the sink. You select the plumber. 
Speaker 
How much is this? 
Speaker 1 
Gonna cost me? You expect plumber to say. $100. Like a dozen, say, $100. Plumber says it costs $100.00 an hour, and however long it takes me is what you're paying. You will take the plumber and throw him out the house, right? So. Therefore this concept. That would be billing. It is an interesting great concept which which again we do a lot of hourly billing but but I. Think the world is moving? Away from that slowly, but, but moving away. But that's just. One of my bugbears is hourly Billy. 
Speaker 2 
Interesting is a final words, kind of what general advice would you give to are your younger self or younger lawyer or both? 
Speaker 1 
Make sure that this is. Really what you want to do? And if you're not sure it's what you want to do, then try it out. You know, I think one of the one of the challenges today generally in the work environments, this is probably exacerbated post pandemic, but existed well before is. You know. People jumping left and right, right, left and looking here looking there and. The only way to really become a successful lawyer. Is to commit to it overtime. There is one thing and. Again, I'm trying not to sound like a dinosaur. But there is one thing that really differentiates lawyers from. Others and you mentioned one. For example, and that's experience. You know when you've seen more situations, your ability to give? Better advise your clients increases and you can't shortcut experience. So if this is what you want to do, buy into it. Be patient. It's a really great, interesting profession, but. Takes time. You know, it's not like. Filling in the lottery room. Your numbers came up. 
Speaker 2 
And I know in other jurisdictions like Canada, maybe I think something like. 5060%. Of people who pass the ball or have a law degree, practice law and the other. 40 or 50% move. On to other careers. Is that somewhere in Israel too? And and in your experience? Do you know other kind of springboard careers? Is there any kind of natural progression? People it? Hurts all kind. Of feel. Not for me. What? What have they? Gone on to succeed in if they have. 
Speaker 1 
Yeah, that would be trying to unravel those questions, so. You know the old joke was every Jewish mother wanted her senators to be were a doctor, right? That that disappeared. Now every Jewish mother wants her son and daughter with options and and IPO's and exits all the. Rest of it. So yes, I I'm not sure. Exactly what the number is. The very, very many people in Israel studied law. We don't tend to be worse. 
Speaker 2 
I'm gonna make a point to. 
Speaker 1 
The incorrect statement. Too many people studied or in Israel. There's just too many. We have as many at least two weeks, three or four years ago. We have as many lawyers the absolute number of lawyers as they do in Japan. This is a tiny country, Japan's big rocks. So normal words see, yes. Many people study well with no intention of. Being worse or with less today than it. Used to be. People leave us. Why would? When you leave her so. Because of and and this this is. This is not an arrogant statement because our position in the market. The number of. People who lead us to. Those other wealth firms is barely. Almost never happens and therefore people leave us either go in house or if they're leaving the law. And again this was probably at its peak in the year after the pandemic was over there a whole bunch of people leaving to do business laws. Probably in the last few months. Things would be very stagnant. Less people move, move positions to assume, but people who leave here tend to go to business positions rather than to legal positions if. 
Speaker 2 
I thank you for your time during this. You know, difficult real time making the time. Sure, you're extremely busy with all your different roles and everything that's going on in Israel. We're hoping only for the best. You mentioned your two boys are serving in the army, wishing them a safe return home and complete victory, of course. And. 
Speaker 1 
Actually pulling the girls, one of each one of each. And you know. 
Speaker 2 
Well, incredible. Incredible. I mean, I'll give you the. Last word but. I wanted just to take this time. To thank you and. Wish you. Only the best during this difficult. 
Speaker 1 
Thank you. Firstly, you're my local relief from from managing the office of thank you for inviting me. You know, I think I think the key message is, you know, this is I live in an amazing country. I made a positive decision to be for 23 years ago, would never want to live anywhere else. Despite the difficulties. It's a vibrant, exciting forward-looking. Country which is going through a white never wanted. It has no choice but to win this war and the day after the war we don't vote to welcome the choice sparks and reach to celebrate and just people back to our conference centre. I share your wish for better days. Ahead and thank you for inviting me. 
Speaker 2 
Jill, I hope to see you around at some point soon and again, wishing you all the best. 
Speaker 1 
Thank you. We'll be in touch. Bye.